Jurassic Park 3 (2001) with Daniel Stephen (Stuck On Sorna)

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Are you ready for a #SpinosaurusSummer?

In 1998 the fact that there would be a Jurassic Park 3 was almost a mere formality however what the story would be was far from certain. 

This week I’m joined by Daniel Stephen the host and creator of the amazing ‘Stuck on Sorna’ podcast to dissect one of the most talked about films in the series. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is just a warning to say that this episode features spoilers, mild language, and lots of talk about dinosaurs. And if that's not for you, then drop what you're doing and leave now.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

It's rare that you hear from the start of the movie before the movies come out.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

You know what I mean? Like then hear them like saying how it feels like a disaster.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Hello and welcome back to Rebirth My Move Screen. Each week in the lead up to Jurassic World Rebirth, I'm sitting down and chatting with a guest about an entry aspect of the Jurassic Summer. And today is the turn of 2001's Jurassic Park 3. By the time The Lost World came out in 1997, a brand had been established, and the Dino Boom was not abating. While The Lost World was in production, Universal Studios in California opened the long gestated Jurassic Park River Adventure, which takes riders on a tour of Jurassic Park before plunging them down an 80-foot drop in a flume as a T-Rex bursts out of a waterfall. And on the BBC in 1999, there was the groundbreaking documentary series Walking with Dinosaurs, which coincidentally is also making a comeback. All in all, it was just a mere formality that in June 1998, a third Jurassic Park entered production. However, Spielberg would be vacating the director's chair and handing it over to Jumungi and ILM alumni Joe Johnson. But Spielberg would still have a very active executive producer role. He had a clear idea of what he wanted the story to involve. He wanted the Pteranodons that he'd remove from the end of The Lost World to finally get their moment in a new Jurassic film. He also wanted Sam Neil back as Dr. Alan Grant. However, beyond that point, the story was up in the air. David Kepp was not returning. Aussie director Craig Rosenberg was the first to take a stab at a script, however, that was passed on pretty quickly, for then Peter Buckman to come on and have another go. But again, this didn't really cut it, and nobody was particularly excited about the story that they had going into production. Time was ticking on, and so Spielberg, as is his wont, halted production, and Johnson threw out the script five weeks before shooting began, only to get on board election writers Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor. To help me navigate the tricky and troubled waters of Jurassic Park 3, I sat down with Daniel Stephen, the host and creator of the amazing Jurassic Park 3 podcast called Stuck on Sauna. Hello, Daniel.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Hi Roland, I'm doing great. Thank you very much for inviting me on. I'm very happy to be here and excited to talk Jurassic Park 3.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Amazing. Yeah, me too. This this film holds holds a very special um place in my heart, and there's just so much to talk about it. My first question is are you excited for rebirth?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Oh yeah. I mean, right now the hype is real. It's the bar is pretty high for it. I really do feel like it's potentially what Jurassic Park 3 could have been. It's got that same kind of like, I mean, apparently a family's crashed on the island. Um, the kind of rescue or unintentional rescue mission, you got the Spino back.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Um, hints at the JP through Raptor, kind of like similar style design. So and David Kepp is writing it. So no matter what else was going into the film, who was in it, who directed it, David Kepp, he knows much more about Jurassic Park and Lost World than I'll ever know. Like that was his job, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Looking at the source material. So I mean, he's the guy you want writing this film. So that's like my number one reason why I'm excited for it. So as of this recording, I'm very, very excited.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

But yeah, I'm no, I'm very excited for Gareth Edwards and for obviously David K, somebody who's probably read those books more than anybody.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I would assume back in the 90s he was like non-stop delving into these books, I mean, diving into it, reading it, notes on the walls, like yeah, he had to know everything. Even if the movies weren't very like closely um reliable to the novels, right? There's a lot of changes, especially with The Lost World, but it still maintains a lot of like the same feeling on the Ian Malcolm character, I mean, and great dialogue. So it's I don't know. It's a very exciting time to be a Jurassic fan.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Uh more so than I think I was even, you know, a few years ago. After you know, Fallen Kingdom, I was kinda let down pretty pretty big, but uh right now it's like okay, it's a fresh, kind of like a fresh start. We're back to an island. It's everything I love about Jurassic Park, so I mean I couldn't be more excited really at this point. I'm just of of course, you know, I'm very cautious about being let down. 'Cause that's happened multiple times in my life when it comes to Jurassic Park.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

I'm just amazed at the speed, like the turnaround of this film, particularly after Dominion, now that was kind of said to be the end, you know, and then suddenly bang, we're back to it.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah, a quick one too. Yeah, it is amazing how how fast it came about. And I mean in my mind, it's just because like David Kepp knows it so well. And when I think of it like as what JP3 could have been, I do wonder if he had been like working on this idea, at least in his mind, if not on paper, you know, for the last two decades, just thinking about man, if I had if I had time to like actually write a Jurassic Park 3, what would it have been? And I wonder if like that kind of sped things along or the conversations with him and Spielberg throughout the years, you know, because it happened really quick, more so than like I mean, it was almost unexpected. When they said the release date, I was kind of shocked by it, you know, how soon it would be.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

And that's interesting because that they must have been so confident on that script, which you know, I suppose we will talk about today with uh Jurassic Park 3. That wasn't always the case during that point. Uh well, to today the mission is to try and get across all the kind of fun and slightly frantic uh behind-the-scenes stories from Jurassic Park 3. Um might not be able to cover it all. You know, this is just a taster.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Daniel, do you mind setting us up by giving us a synopsis for Jurassic Park 3?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, I mean, the base, it's what's great about JP3 is the very simple, straightforward uh plot synopsis. I mean, our lovable Dr. Grant, you know, the man who says he will never return to the island, is approached by a seemingly wealthy businessman named Paul Kirby, who offers him the opportunity for money to be a tour guide from the air over an airplane to go over Isla Sorna. But of course, Paul Kirby is not a wealthy businessman. He has different intentions. His son is on the island after a parasailing accident. And that's pretty much, I mean, chaos ensues when the plane crashes. I mean, that's pretty much that's what's kind of great about it. Like it's it's good and bad, obviously, right? But I mean, it's very simple. It's a rescue mission. They gotta rescue the kid. That wasn't Grant's intention, but uh throughout the film he goes from being done with dinosaurs, like the living in-gen monsters, to having an appreciation for them, even though his uh student was almost killed. I don't know how else to describe the movie. It's it's No, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

That's that's that's amazing. Thank you. What was your memory of first seeing Jurassic Park 3?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah, the first time I saw it, I was actually like disappointed in it. Okay. And I don't know I can never like like going into it, I was 13 years old in the summer of 2001. But I mean I was counting down the days, going to Dan's JP3 page, um, rumors, pictures, everything. Um my problem might have been like I had read the junior novelization before I saw the film. So that could have influenced it a little bit. Whereas like I should just watch the movie because the novelization is like sometimes word for word, right? It's very faithful to I've never actually read it actually. Yeah, I mean I think it because some things are different, not much, but like as a kid, I read it and I saw the movie. And the movie there were a lot of great things I loved about it, but I think the big thing was the way it ended so quickly, it it felt really weird. Like even as a 13-year-old, I felt like I needed more from that movie. There needed to be something big at the end of it, instead of just being rescued. So my first initial viewing was a little bit of a letdown. I didn't like instantly like now I love it. I appreciate it. I get more of the backstory for maybe why it wasn't a longer film. Um, but something felt different about it compared to watching the first two movies, which were about a half hour longer. And it's like I mean you watch Jurassic Park and you don't see the T-Rex until like an hour into it, right? I mean, there's they Spielberg did a great job like hiding the dinosaur, where JP3 is like instantly, which is a good thing now, right? I look at it as like a positive, but you get right into the action, um, the Spinosaurus is on full display right when you get to the island. So it it was very different. The T-Rex getting killed, you know, Alan and Ellie not being together. There's a lot of different like as a kid it just felt different. Yeah. But of course I saw it twice in theaters. Then when it was on VHS for Christmas, you know, I just mean my brother watched it like all the time, just like non-stop. Just it was always playing. And I think just over the years, especially since Jurassic World came out, like I've learned to appreciate it more. Okay. Like more curious about it.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

But my my first time watching Jurassic Park 3, I was at the the family holiday to San Francisco actually, and I was just so excited to see it. Um, yeah, 13. I I just loved it for the first time I saw it. I remember going back to the UK and taking my friends to go and see it, and nobody else was as excited as me coming out. I was just I was amazing. I could I I honestly just turn me around, I'll go, I'll go and sit and watch it again. I think I enjoyed it more than The Lost World, and I didn't realise why at the time. I think it was just because the the look of the film felt closer to how Dean Cundy filmed the jungle in Jurassic Park, and then you had somebody completely different for Janusz Kaminsky. Jurassic Park 3 was the first thing I had on DVD, and with it came DVD extras. And so I just poured over all of those and just watched it. And so it was the film I knew probably the best out of all three. So, as I said in my introduction, this is the first film not directed by Spielberg, and no source material from Crichton directly. So we have Joe Johnson directing. Why do you think Joe Johnson ended up getting this role uh to direct Jurassic Park 3?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah, I mean, for everything I've read, you know, Joe had worked with Spielberg and George Lucas, um, going back to the 70s. I mean, so they've all known each other. And I know that I think from one quote that I had right was that Joe had asked Spielberg to direct The Lost World.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

And then Spielberg decided to direct it. But he said that if there was another sequel, you could direct it. So it sounded like it was a more like a friend uh type of situation, like I respect you, you're the filmmaker. You can do the next one. And I mean, Joe Johnston in the 90s, I mean Jumanji, that's like a movie I grew up like loving. Um Honey I Shrunk the Kids, um, Rocketeer, you know, October Sky. Like he's done some like to me, some 90s classics and beyond. I mean, it makes sense why he would direct Jurassic Park 3, more so than Colin Trevaro would direct Jurassic World, you know, like as far as like experience um and connections, that kind of thing. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Um I love the stuff I read a story that Joe Johnson went on like a dig with paleontologist Jack Horner to get into character of the film.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

And that's where they cooked up the idea for letting the T-Rex take a backseat and kind of finding something bigger and badder, I think. Um but what what's what's your idea of the the T-Rex being A on the poster and B like the main antagonist of the film?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

I mean, I've always liked it. Um even as a kid, I thought that was I wasn't some like diehard T-Rex fan. So I mean when it when it died, it wasn't like devastating to me. I think the poster change was pretty cool, and I love the JP3 poster. I hate that they've taken the spino off, I think, like the 4K release. I think they've changed it on some of them, which is kind of strange to me because I mean it's one of the great things about JP3 is making changes and you know, trying something new. I mean, killing off the T-Rex, clearly, if we've had six films now, the T-Rex has been a hero quite often. Like it's it's almost comical at this point if they try it again, where the T-Rex is gonna save the day at the end. The Spino makes sense. It's a good it makes sense for a good marketing, you know, selling point for a third film. It's like gotta be something different. There's bigger dinosaurs. And yeah, I love that Joe was clearly interested in dinos and like wanted to know more. I mean, I I can't say anymore if if Colin did the same thing or not, but with Joe, like from everything I've read, even I think last year he spoke at the Museum of the Rockies, I think it was. Some one of the museums that um it was like some kind of fundraiser he was speaking at, which I would have loved to have gone, but the the tickets were a little bit uh out of my price range. But I mean he clearly still has an interest and a passion for you know for dinosaurs, which is pretty cool. So I mean I'm sure that might have played a little bit into Spielberg asking him or letting him do JP3.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

The the thing of Crichton not coming back, do you know whether Crichton was consulted at all?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

That's a good question. I I would think so, but I don't know for sure. I mean, I don't know if I've for sure. Okay, so we know David Kepp supposedly came up with the idea of a simple rescue mission.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Like just make it very simple. So I don't know if I'm getting confused where it was Kep or if it was Crichton who was involved for a few days but couldn't like crack an idea, like think of a good idea for a third film. I should look I shouldn't know that answer, but I don't. I feel like I mean because I feel like there must have been a conversation, surely, with the the relationship that Spielberg and Oh, I would I would assume he'd be I mean between him and David Kepp, they'd probably be the first two people you would talk to. Um and I think one of the things, even as a a 13-year-old who had read the novels, I was kind of surprised that Paul Kirby wasn't involved with um Dodgson, like just having that kind of character. Like why wasn't he that same character trying to because you read the The Lost World novel and it's like okay, you're going to Isla Sorna, you're gonna steal dinosaur eggs or whatever you need to take. Yeah, you'd probably want a dinosaur expert, right? So kidnapping Grant makes sense. Like that seems like the most obvious logical plot line for the film, but they never go there, you know. They Paul Kirby's just just a guy. So I mean I feel like if Criden was involved, he'd probably like just use the Lost World plot, the plot that you threw out from the book, because the movie and the book are very different, but there's so much in that book they could have used for JP3, and I feel like they were on the right track, like they were they were getting there, right? I I'm so curious to like if I I haven't really thought much about that, how much was Crichton involved in it? Because I think if he was involved even for a few days or a month, like I feel like he would have suggested more from the Lost World novel.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Because it's a big daunting job for Joe Johnson to take on. Spielberg's not, you know, he's gonna be executive producing it, you know, he's gonna go off and do some other films, and you're gonna be the one that's handling it, and Michael Crichton now isn't gonna be involved, you know, oh my yeah, how do I kind of navigate this mammoth film?

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah, I mean that's it's a good question. I I do wonder if would if Joe Johnson signed on, like, did he think David Kepp was involved? Did he think Michael Crichton was involved? Did you think Spielberg would be more available than he was? Because I mean, you know, what I've read, and I think most people know, like there was a script in 1999 from Craig Rosenberg that was tossed out. You know, and like if I guess the question would be if they'd gone with that first script, or I mean because they didn't film until I think late summer into the fall of 2000, right? So it it makes me now just think about this. Like, if I could ask Joe Johnston questions I'd be asking when you signed on, what was the plan for the did Spielberg give you a a treatment or an outline and say, This is what I want? Or did he say, Hey, you're gonna have Michael Crichton working with you for the next six months? You know, was there anything like that? Because the idea of yeah, Joe Johnston, okay, you're on the film, do whatever you want. Cap's not involved, Crichton's not involved, Spielberg, I'm working on a different film. Like, that'd be pretty stressful. Are you sure about that, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah, I bet. So that first script, is that the first script that we know of, the 1999 one?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, so that's the one, if I'm recalling correctly. They were, I think there's two different planes that one for sure, one plane crashed on the island, the second plane, there's like kids on one plane, parents on the other plane, something like that. And one plane crashes, and the other one they try to rescue the the family. We there are storyboards available, which is a drastically different movie than JP3.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Um the storyboards I've seen have the baryonycs, but they do have like that classic, like sleeping baryonycs by the river and they're rafting, kind of like from the novel. Um, and Grant is there, but Grant has like a beard and long hair. And I don't know for sure if this is it gets very confusing because I I've I've read so many different like rumors or so many different like drafts. I I've not read this script, I can't find it, but um I think it was the JP Visual History might talk about this one a little bit, but I don't know if this is the one where they wanted Grant to be like living on the island. I'm not sure if that's how he gets involved in the kind of Robinson Crusoe thing. Um because there's another script, the Peter Buckman, from April 2000, where it ends with Grant staying on the island. The Craig Rosenberg script is kind of a mystery, but there's there are some storyboards out there, definitely multiple teenagers on the island getting chased by dinosaurs, and Grant's there. Yeah. And the Joe Johnson quote is something like the script read like a bad episode of Friends. And so they tossed it out. And I'm pretty sure he was referring to this to this script. Because I mean, there's nothing as far as now, it's completely like tossed out the window in 1999.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah. And then we get Peter Buckman, who is a com who's a an unknown to me, really.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

He's he's done a couple. I'm trying to think the last time I looked at his um IMDB. I'm drawing a blank, but he's done like a couple of movies. I don't think there's been anything like major releases in the past like 15 years. I don't know why. Same with Craig Rosenberg. I don't know what the big interest was in getting Rosenberg or Peter Buckman. There must have been some connection. Or maybe they just assume like they would write the first draft and then they'd bring in somebody else to come out.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah, just to get them started. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

And that could be as simple as what it was. Um yeah, Peter Buckman, because Craig Rosenberg, I'm thinking summer into fall 99, and then the first draft I've seen of from Peter Buckman was in April 2000. Right. Okay. And that's where there's like the mainland investigation, there's like dinosaur attacks or something like that, and they're trying to like find out what's going on at that point. Okay. So it's very different. And it's very different than the final JP3 film.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

So it's Yeah, I I love the episode that you did of Stuck on Sauna with Oh good.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

You listen to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

So yeah, I've I've I've listened to the series twice.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah. Yeah. I mean that I think it was episode seven. I love doing that, and it's it brings a whole new life to the the script.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

It's it does. And it's it's pretty out there in places. I wasn't expecting it to be uh as dark in in in in in places. There's lots of people die.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Um yeah, the stampede at the end.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah. Yeah, I mean that came out of nowhere. Yeah. I was not expecting that.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

And that's something I'm sure like even if that script made it to the fight, like shooting, they might have been like, you can't kill off this character like that. You gotta No. It's pretty brutal. And it's just with a foot like that smashed, and it's so close to the end. And yeah, you know, they're bombing the island and dinosaurs exploding, and it's like and then Grant's staying behind on the island. Like they I like it because I think it's it's different, it's out there. And I like the idea of like a mainland investigation. It's pretty interesting. Yes, it almost feels like a TV show sort of X-Files. Oh, yeah, X-Files for sure. Yeah, I mean it's it would have been very interesting. And I mean, I get the idea of simplifying it and just keeping the movie on the island. But even that, like, they really did toss out a lot of the script.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

I mean, a lot of things stay the same, but I mean there's no that dirt bike chase and that yeah, I was gonna talk about the dirt, but that and they see they have an obsession in Jurassic with motorbikes and dinosaurs. They want raptors and motorbikes. But that is just so long. I just couldn't believe it, just kept going. So we're out of the genetics lab and then we're we're popping wheelies, we're rushing around the complex, and then heading off into the jungle. It's like, God, Blimey, these bikes are doing really well.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Oh, yeah, the fact that the bikes even work at all is uh it's kind of funny. But uh yeah, I do like there's something about dirt bike, motorcycle in the jungle. It's tough because like in theory, I like it. I love the idea of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Jurassic World, I think the motorcycle in the woods and the jungle, like, you know, it didn't work as well for me as uh the idea of reading JP3 where these they're on dirt bikes and maybe on some trails, I don't know. But it is interesting. Spielberg clearly loved the idea and wouldn't give up on yeah, like we need more dirt bikes, more bikes. I'm trying to think what else was in that script that was uh kind of out there. I mean, a lot of it's just like small changes. Um I do like the the Paul character in his son, that kind of relationship.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

It's kind of an overused storyline. The father who works too much and doesn't have a great relationship with his son, but then by the end of the film, they're you know, they're embracing and it's like it's simple. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

I also quite like the the the grant aspect of that relationship as well. You know, in Jurassic Park, he's not okay with kids at all and then learns to be good with kids by the end of it. And in that script, he is still great with kids, and he's teaching another, you know, man, another father, how to relate to his children.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, no, that that makes sense. I also think that I like that Grant wants to go to the island. And in the script, his goal is to set up like a research station on the island, which is pretty cool. He wants to go there. Like that's his mission. And I mean, it leads to the ending with a script where he wants to stay behind. But in the movie, they did a one eighty. It's like hates the island, hates the dinosaurs. Yeah. So I'm very curious, like in the process, who made the decision to change it. That's a big it really changes everything um about his character from from the script to the movie.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Was wondering with that script at what point the cast was actually brought on board? Was you know William H. Macy and everything? Because his character's called Paul Robey uh in uh that in that script. Do you think he was brought in and he thought he was playing that character?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Oh yeah, I would say a hundred percent. I I think when I talked to him, he said he had a script initially sent to him, but it was like the first in his mind like the first draft, like episode one, they're not like so. I'm assuming I think the timeline's something like they had the Peter Buckman script that I read in my podcast is from April 2000, and it's only 50 pages. So it's kind of more like a treatment outline, but it has quite a bit of information in there. I've then read a script that's I I'm guessing from June, where it's that 50 pages extended to like 105 pages, but it's all the same storyline, just like more professional. I'm pretty sure it's Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor came on board, I'm guessing, in July 2000, for about six weeks to rewrite it into the film that we know. And I like to think by then William H. Macy was probably signed on.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

They would have had to be, surely, because that you know, they were just about to go in. I cannot imagine Joe Johnson's position of being you've got a cast of actors that you are gonna be in charge of. You're the one that's you know helming the shit.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean, I think the only thing only it's probably you know possible is one money, but also that it's Jurassic Park 3 and the first two films were so successful, you have Spielberg involved, and I mean I think William H. Macy, you know, Sam Neil, Ta Leone, if they they learn the script is tossed out, I'm sure they'd be like, that's very frustrating. It's a lasting actor wants probably, but yeah, they're professionals and you gotta trust the studio at that point because they're not gonna let JP3, you know, be a disaster, or so they you know, we're hoping.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

And what and what what's your thoughts on the cast that we actually get here, you know, Sam Neil coming back?

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, I mean, I'm all about Sam Neil coming back, and I was a kid. I wasn't like a big Ian Malcolm fan. Like him being in The Lost World, I think even like at first glance, his character's very different from the first time you saw him. I mean, he could basically be playing someone a whole different character. Alan Grant was the person like when I was a kid watching Jurassic Park, I wanted to be Alan Grant. So him being back at JP3, I think it's great. I mean, I think he's I always try to imagine like if Alan Grant was in the Lost World, would I have enjoyed it more? And the answer is yes, 100%. There's something about Sam Neil's presence on screen.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I think with Jurassic Park 3, Sam Neil feels more comfortable as the character this time around. I mean, mainly probably because he's done it before. But I think also he understands the comedy of the situation as well, and Sam Neil is really good at comedy and the kind of lovable grumpiness that he has throughout throughout the film. What what's your thoughts on on Willie Mate Mason? Of course you got to and and you you got to interview him.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

I was very lucky that I was able to track him down, um, which is it was incredible. I mean, that was I didn't expect that. I assumed he would say no. And I assumed that when I spoke to him, he wouldn't be like happy about it for some reason, but he was very energetic, positive. Um, if he doesn't like the film, he didn't convey that at all. Everything was, you know, positive. Even like the negatives that he talked about with making the movie, like to him, like the way he spoke about it was like, you know, it's 20 years ago, I was younger. Um, I said some things that, you know, weren't the most positive, but it's like he's grown as a person.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah, what is that quote that he says? Because I've I've I didn't know until I listened to your podcast, I didn't know of the context of it. But he said some rather unsavory things before the film was before filming had begun.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

It was during filming. Right. If I'm recalling correctly, because I I also interviewed Dan from Dan's JP3 page.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Um, who kind of reported the quote initially. It was something like I'm I'm I don't gonna butcher this quote, but it was something along the lines of feeling like the the movie they're not being a captain or someone should be shot for something someone should be shot.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

I th that that's the standout bit, isn't it, really?

SPEAKER_00 26:09

So when I talked to Dan, I remember him saying that there was a report of when they were filming on the river, they had a boat with the camera equipment on it, and the boat like tipped over and the camera equipment fell in the water, and William H. Macy kind of like vented his frustrations um publicly about feeling like the whole situation was kind of getting out of hand with the filmmaking. He was very vocal about it. I mean, there's always trouble with movies, right? There's always some like production issues, but it's rare that you hear from the star of the movie before the movies come out, yeah. You know what I mean? Like and hear them like saying how it feels like a disaster. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he didn't like deny that he said it when I talked to him. He he was just very open, like, yeah, I said it. I shouldn't, you know, it was a different time, even though he still feels it was true. He made that clear, like, it's true, but you know, probably shouldn't have said it. But I mean, Joe Johnson himself, like, they were because I had the newspaper newspaper clipping taped to my wall as a kid. Anything Jurassic Park 3 I saved. And it was an interview with Joe Johnson who was saying that he had spoken to his manager agent asking, like, hey, if I quit this movie now, what would happen? And this was in an interview before the movie was released. That's also pretty rare.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

You can tell Joe Johnson like cared about the movie, the franchise. Um, he's proud of what he did from everything I've read, but he's also very open about like this was kind of a bad experience occasionally. I mean, what could be more stressful? Making you're making a third movie in a very successful franchise, there's no finished script, you know, you're showing up every day having to like make up dialogue or what we're gonna shoot. I mean, that's a worst case scenario.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah. And so just before filming kind of started, a bit like Spielberg did with Jurassic Park, but for very different reasons, he shut down the production.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Right, yeah. I think it was those when Alexander Payne and um Jim Taylor came on board to rew rewrite Peter Buckman's script and to kind of simplify it into the simple rescue mission that we know. Because there's a script I've read this from like September 1st, 2000, and it's pretty close to the JP3 we know, except for like the ending is a little bit different. It seemed like they always struggled with how to end the movie, but um yeah, I mean, I think I would guess mid-July and August, from what I can tell, was like when the production was kind of like paused. And I'm sure it was kind of like, what are we doing? You know, I'm everything is kind of like stopped except for I mean, I know like the aviary sequence was always going to be they knew that would be in the movie, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

And that was something that Spielberg wanted in the film originally.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah, so I mean that was I'm sure that's the one thing they could keep like working on and building. Um, but for the most part, I as far as I know, like a lot of things were kind of you know paused.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

I haven't talked to Joe Johnson yet, so I don't I feel like he's the one person that would know it'd be interesting to hear from Alexander Payne and uh Jim Taylor as well, at that point of their career being asked to come and in all intents and purposes save a huge blockbuster film just before it's about to start filming.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah, I know. Alexander Payne, I've reached out to him and written letters. He actually spoke at a local like art theater. I bought a ticket for it. He had it was doing a QA after it. But my son, he was about a year and a half at the time, uh less than that. And my wife was working. Um, my mom was gonna watch him, but then she couldn't. And I was like, okay, I got my son. I'll just go and watch the QA QA and hope that my son like behaves. They were playing the movie Election. Me and my son stayed in the in the in the hallway, and then once the movie ended, we walked in, and there was a line of people asking QA questions. And I was standing in the line, and like, I just want to ask him about Jurassic Park 3. Like any question, I I had like a list um from my son. And once I was getting closer, he wasn't he was getting grumpy and not cooperating. I'm like, I can't be that guy with a kid. So I I left, but I was like, man, that was that's probably the closest I'll get to Alexander Payne to asking that question. I keep reaching out, but like I'm I'd be fascinated by what he has to say about his time on the film. He's a great writer, um, great director.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

And yeah, and I mean I love I I remember watching like about Schmidt that came out like a little while after that with Jack Nicholson. And I the only reason I watched that is because I knew that the name uh that they were attached to that because of Jurassic Park 3. Oh really? It's such a funny film. Of course, now the holdovers that's a great movie. That's you know, it's gonna be always on at Christmas for me. You know, I think that's what they managed to add to Jurassic Park 3, just a bit of just a bit of lightness, a bit of humor, a bit of knowing that this is the third film in a franchise.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

I mean, them getting you know Jim Taylor, Alexander Payne, and saying you have like six weeks to save the movie. I mean, they they must have known clearly that William H. Macy was a big star of the movie. Yes. I feel like they took his character kind of like from the movie Fargo. William H. Macy is amazing in Fargo. And it's very the character is kind of like in a similar like world as far as like car salesman kind of guy, you know, a regular guy that's kind of like a doofus a little bit, like goofy, just and they put him in a Jurassic Park movie. Um I don't think you know Payne and Jim Taylor were on board during filming. Um as far as I know, Peter Buckman came back. Um and I know John August also came on board for a little bit, but I don't think those two writers were involved. And I wish kind of wish they would have been, because yeah, I know they were making up dialogue, you know, on the day, like these conversations about tow truck drivers and um that kind of you know, fishing and stuff like that. Like there there could have been more. That's like the one thing with JP3. I wish I wish there was more time like them to talk and just like take a break and talk more, like add something more to the character a little bit than what there is. In one of the scripts, the September 2000 scripts, I think, which is close to the final film. I feel like the character Eric tells his mom something like Ben got hurt, like mentions at least that Ben Hildebrand is dead. And I that line always sticks with me because like feels very natural and innocent, innocent, where it's like, yeah, you know, he got hurt. And it's like, yeah, Eric's a kid, he's been on an island for two months, traumatized. The one adult that he had died in a tree. And it's like, of course, of course that would mess you up. Like I wish there was more to that, but like they just didn't have time to kind of like cut it all out, and which is it's a bummer because JP3 had room to really grow.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

So with Jurassic Park 3, that's the bits that we didn't get. I think there's so much to love about JP3. Starting, I think, with that you know, amazing plane crash.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Yeah, I mean the plane crash. I mean, right when the when they land on the island, I mean, within a minute it's like it's just chaos, right? Um, plane crashes, falling out of the tree, spino killing people, and they do a great job of just like getting into the action, which is not what we're kind of used to with the first two movies, where they kind of pace it out nice and slow. Um, but it it does make sense with the when you don't have much of a script. It's like, well, we know the plane crash needs to happen, you know. So it's like, yeah, we'll extend that action. Don't need too much dialogue. Um but it does work pretty well. I mean, the crash, it like, you know, leads right into the spino T-Rex fight, and that leads right into uh the Kirby's revealing who they are. Yeah. The plane crash, I really do. I've learned to appreciate it more than just a plane crash. Like you've seen the behind-the-scenes pictures and read stories about like it's just it's very well done. I love the editing.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Because that's all that's all real, isn't it? That's that's a that's a real model to people, which feels exactly like Joe Johnson was doing on Star Wars.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yeah, I mean, he knows what he's doing, and you know, between uh Stan Winston and like I mean and the crews, I mean the modeling of this movie, I would never have known the plane, you know, was a model. But you see the pictures where they're like the multiple-sized planes, right? The miniature, there's a bigger one, there's one that's in a tree that's permanently in the tree, and like kind of rotates back and forth. I mean, it's very impressive work. You know, when I first saw the movie as a kid where I wasn't like overly in love with it, to now I you know love the movie. But I've learned like what goes into filmmaking, I get it. Like what we're watching on screen, um, you know, CGI has taken over quite a bit, and this was still a lot of CGI in this movie, but also a lot of you know practical effects, and that stuff I appreciate. You know, if you see a practical effect or like models and miniature buildings and sets, it's like it's impressive now. And it's like yeah, I get it because it looks more real.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

It's it's a it's a fun opening. And then did you ever get the controversy between the T-Rex and the Spino fight?

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Not really. I mean, it's funny, like it's always if you go on Twitter, Instagram, like there's there's so many different like memes or people like I don't know. I mean, I never thought much about it. No. I mean, I liked the T-Rex, but it didn't mean anything to me like compared to the characters. So seeing the T-Rex die, like I get it now, as in like that was a a big deal for the franchise because they wouldn't do that in a Jurassic World movie, right? T-Rex was the hero. Um so it's like I have a lot of respect for JP3 to change it up and not just be like, Yeah, I mean they could have ignored the T-Rex completely, just not put it on screen.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

And just have the spino, but like, no, we're gonna kill it.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

And then to have an editing gag of when the Spinosaurus moves its head and then it cuts to Grant having just punched Paul Kirby in the face. I think that's where you can see like Joe Johnson really shine in those moments because that's their his his vision for how this film is gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

What's funny about that is to me, like as a kid, even after I had seen it like many times, it goes from like the T-Rex like falls, yeah, and then Kirby gets punched, but it's kind of like you hear the sound and he's like falling back like that. And then Mrs. Kirby's like, Hey, wait, wait, no, no, please don't wait. As a kid, for some reason, I always thought she was talking to the spino with the T-Rex, and we were like, Oh, come on, please don't like don't fight, that kind of thing. Um I think that's there too. Even when Grant gets knocked out on the plane, yes, um, by Cooper, you don't see it, it's just like the his eyes close, like the the shot on Kirby and like it fades to black. And Kirby's reaction, the ooh, and it it's it's weird, it's funny, but it's like it's a very unique way of shooting it because it would never cross my mind to be like, are we gonna shoot it? But keep it on uh Paul Kirby, have him make a face and like have it fade to black. Like it's it there's some unique filmmaking decisions that very much much make it like a Joe Johnson movie. Um that I don't think everyone would pick up on, but like it's subtle comedy that's there.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

It's different because it's a very different thing to see Cooper come up and elbow him in the back of the head. That's that's a very different thing. It's more fitting to the kind of Amblin sort of world that you know Spielberg created.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

It's grown on me quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Yeah. And so after all this, they go back to the crash site, then they find Ben's skeleton um in the parachute. Um and yeah, I love the raptor eggs and the nest sequence. It's just so much fun, that bit, and kind of Grant's reaction to it all.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah, one of my favorite shots that you know, Grant like popping up, like rising into the shot, and like you know he's afraid. Yeah, like our hero is afraid, and like, oh, it's just like getting serious now. It's like, yeah, one of my favorite parts of the movie. Plus, it really will. I think to me, they did a good job most of the time of um filming on location in a jungle, then going to a set jungle. And like in that scene, it matches pretty well. It's very convincing. I mean, at least when I was a 13-year-old, I assumed everything was in the jungle. You know, it's like as you're older, you catch some things and it's like, oh, okay, probably a set, but for the most part, sometimes it's flawless. It's very well done.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

I remember actually that scene as a 13-year-old boy watching it, and the audience in the cinema, when it panned the different eggs, it had a reaction on the audience I was seeing it with. Oh, really? They were all that's pretty cool. Yeah, they're all oohs and ahs of like because they understood what that was and what that meant because of what they'd seen in Jurassic Park and The Lost World. So that was it had the desired effect.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

I mean, that's when audiences knew that raptors were scary, right? Yeah. They were the bad guys. So it's like we've kind of been uh reconditioned to know that raptors are they're friendly. They're our blue's our buddy. It's yeah, a lot has changed in the past 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

And then that leads to the my favorite set of the whole thing, which is the abandoned genetics lab. And I I wish we had more time here.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Yeah, a lot of potential too. I mean, this is where they could have been going through different rooms or learning about what Ingen was doing or still doing, like that would have been pretty fantastic. I mean, there's a lot of potential. They could have stumbled upon, you know, somebody else that had been left behind by In-Gen, you know, some worker. Who knows? Like they're you could go like ten different directions if you had more time to like really plan it out what they would find in the lab, because it's the most interesting part.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

I mean, there's like that mystery of what's going on in the island. They don't really fully answer. Like the spino wasn't on the list. No. Okay, we don't learn why or what's going on. It's like as a viewer, we can think about it. And this was like this would have been the one chance to really get into it and answer those questions. But even as it is, like, yeah, it's a lot of fun. I love abandoned buildings and movies um that's out of Jurassic Park movies. I wish like even Jurassic World going back to the visitor center in Jurassic World, like I wanted a whole movie like that.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Definitely. And I just love that the fact of the raptors, you know, running through these corridors, and actually throughout the whole film, just how alive the dinosaurs feel. The blending of the ILM dinosaurs and Stan Winston's ones. It's for me, it's seamless how it how they go from each other. It's more so than the previous films. I think. I think this one they're really working in tandem.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah, I mean the JP3 still holds up in quite a few areas, and one of them is going from CGI Raptors to animatronics to people in suits like wearing their Raptor outfits. I mean, I mean you're going from like a shot that has CGI and animatronics or a person in a suit, and it's very convincing.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Like they knew what they were doing, and that's the one thing like Jurassic World mostly you know stood out to me was the Raptors just looked different, and not in a good way. There was something that was done differently, it looked different, it doesn't hold up. But JP3 from you know 24 years ago, the the Raptors are beautiful, like very well done.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Such a shame because there's a clear evolution between Jurassic Park and Jurassic Park 3 where those teams, you know, they invented this technology back then or this partnership in Jurassic Park. And then by the time they get to Jurassic Park 3, it feels like the relationship's really strong. So it's such a shame that you know Stan Winston wasn't around and the studio wasn't really you know, CGI had taken over so much by that point that to kind of go and do it the practical way would have cost them a lot more money. That seems to be the reason why they didn't go down the practical route for Jurassic World, was the money involved. And you and then you get the Tranodons and the Avery sequence, which is probably for me the standout section of this film. It feels the one that's the most put together. That I think the production design again is a is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah, I mean, from you know what I've seen and from talking to some of the the crew and the cast, I mean and you can find pictures on various Jurassic Park fan sites or on Instagram of like the way they built the canyon at the studio. I mean like physically built canyon walls, um, which is pretty impressive. And I mean adding the CGI to it, I don't know. I mean to yeah, I agree, it's very impressive. It's the standout part of the movie. I mean it goes up with their it's up there with any like the T-Rex breakout in Jurassic Park 1. Like to me, it's that it's so well done, beginning to end, and visually, everything like this is the reason to make Jurassic Park 3, right? The reason to keep like no matter all the challenges, like the aviary sequence, we have to bring it to the screen because everything is so well done. The suspense, like the lead up to it to Grant realizing they're in a birdcage. I mean, that's there's not many like better moments in the franchise where like a character realizes they're in like serious trouble. That's like as a viewer what we want in the suspense and the music, um, the sound, the sound design of that whole sequence, the flapping and like the the rattling, the catwalk and the metal shaking. Yeah. Everything comes together in that. The behind the scenes, everything I've seen, it's like it's impressive, but it doesn't it doesn't look like the final product. The final product, like once you add in the CGI or more fog and the darkness, like it takes on a whole new life. I would love to if I could go back in time and walk that set. Because I mean the scale of it is just impressive. It's impressive that out of what they built, they could make a whole sequence. I mean, yeah, they add in like I'm sure a lot of blue screen stuff and CGI, but it's very, very convincing that it takes place over, you know, a good amount of space in this this canyon.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

Yeah, it feels like a real location.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Yeah. And it's the fact that it goes from, you know, the top of the canyon, walking down the steps, the catwalk, you know, between Billy and Eric flying around, then falling into the water, everyone falling into the water. I mean, it's just like they make great use of the canyon of the space, going from top to bottom.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

It's one of the things that frustrate has frustrated me about Jurassic World is that there doesn't appear to be like an attempt to top this. In all three movies, I'm like, there's nothing that really comes close to it. And I think you know, the first movie, uh the breakout with the T-Rex, it's great. Um, Lost World, the the trailer over the cliff is incredible. Three is Aviary sequence. Nothing in my mind ever came close to the Aviary sequence. I don't know why I don't know what could possibly, but having like a a sequence, like it's like a clearly defined part of the movie that it's like this is what we're focusing on for eight minutes, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Yeah, and and you've got Billy that dies, you know, essentially in this what what's the reason do you think that he came back? At the end, because he f it feels like a very definitive death.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Oh yeah, he's dead. Oh you you could not kill that guy more. I mean, Billy was he was a goner, right? I mean, as a viewer, yeah, Billy coming back is pretty shocking to the point where he's still able to talk. It's kind of like Yeah. Whoa, I thought you were getting like stabbed and drowned. I mean, he's just got a few bandages. That's all. I know. It's like that strong desire to have like that Spielberg happy ending.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

I don't know. I wonder if they if they shot multiple versions where Billy stayed dead. Because it it wouldn't take much to just like cut him out of that scene, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:35

No.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

You know, which is like he appears, they talk, he's got the hat. I guess the hat might be the one thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

He's got the hat, yeah, which is the which is the big thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

I mean Maybe he could have written a note that said, I sorry for the eggs, but I've saved your hat.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Or the the military found the hat, yeah. I mean.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

I don't know. It is weird that he stayed alive. I assume they shot multiple ways, and maybe some kind of like studio test audience or executives said, You can't kill off Billy. If we make a fourth movie, like he's the the younger generation.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Although I don't think he wanted to be in the in a fourth one.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

It didn't sound like it, but I mean I'm sure you've seen like the pictures from the the video game that was cancelled where it's like Billy with the Raptor. I mean, I don't know why he's I mean I like that he's alive because I always wanted him to be in the next movie. You know, I like Billy. But on screen, he should have died.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

We get the river sequence, which is sort of their way of putting the lagoon bit from the book in, um, but not quite. I think the strongest parts of this film are the obviously the bits that they worked on the most while the script was being, you know, tossed from pillar to post and all different writers coming on board, Stan Winston and the storyboard artists, and everybody, you know, they were working hard. It's interesting the cutting between Barney.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Oh, I I don't like it. I mean, it's I get the comedy of it, but it's right up there with like in The Lost World, the trailer over the cliff scene is nearly perfect. And I there's that one line about Apple turnovers from McDonald's or something.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

And I'm like, I really hate that line. I don't know why. It's just more like I want to be scared for these characters, I don't want them making jokes about ordering fast food. Like, I don't I don't want to be taken out of the scene. And when you watch JP3 with Barney, that's the best way to take somebody out is to not only make like intercut with comedy, but a real life character that we all know, and we all have our thoughts on Barney. And as a 13-year-old, Barney's not cool, right? At least it wasn't to me. So I mean when you cut back and forth, it's like, oh, this is it just felt weird. It still feels weird. I get the comedy of it, and I mean I'm curious, like I still don't know who put that into the script exactly, or if it was added later. If I would go back in time and they're editing the movie, I would say, Hey, you don't need to show so much Barney. Maybe cut it back or skip it. And I'm sure at the idea, it was probably very simple. Like Charlie's watching TV, and maybe on the day they go to film, they're like, Hey, what if we uh what if he's watching Barney? Wouldn't that be funny? And and like, yeah, I could see that being funny, but it's very much like a focus. Like you yeah you see it's Barney, and it's like, okay, I get what they're doing. Lovable dinosaur, oh, they're getting killed by a dinosaur. I don't know. It's it's it's not the best moment. How about that?

SPEAKER_02 47:25

No.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

But besides that, it's all pretty great.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

It's it's great, yeah. And I do love the raptor sequence, which seems to be present in quite a few of the scripts, but this is the end of the film. This is this is the climax, this is the equivalent of the T-Rex coming into the visitor center.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

I didn't know it was supposed to. Like, I didn't know this is the big showdown, like at the end, like the raptor, the egg handoff. Like, and I mean, still watching to this day, it's like you know there needs to be this is like the they hand the eggs back, it should be a nice pause, everything's good. Oh, there's somebody on the beach, the military is here. Okay. But now things should go wrong again. Like there needs to be that. Like I didn't Yeah, you don't feel like the the egg handoff is what the movie's leading to, even though like it makes sense. And I know some of the scripts I think it happens more like in the middle of the movie. Um, but I mean visually it's beautiful. I like that you know Amanda Kirby takes charge, like to hand the egg back, like she wants to be the leader. I think that's great. And I think it's also like symbolic, you know, with the egg and the mom raptor and the mother losing her son, like Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

And she gets her moment in in in the film.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah, so it all makes sense, and I think it's it's great, but it's funny because it's like I almost like devalue it because it's supposed to be a bigger moment than it feels as a viewer. Like because I know they're not gonna hurt our main characters at that point.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

Yeah, so the film came out um summer 2001, and what was the sort of reaction that it had?

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Yeah, I mean I think critics were kind of mixed on it. I know I've read some reviews where it was kind of like it's a nice change of pace from the previous two where the two felt like longer than they should have been. Um where I think most people didn't love it. And I think fans too, I mean, including myself at first. You know, it didn't make as much as the other two films, but you know, it had a lot of competition for one.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Not not to mention it was also a third movie. But I mean it had week after week, at the following week was I think Planet of the Apes, and then it had Rush Hour Two, then American Pie 2. Um it was some heavy competition.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

That um those movies were making money. I mean, I think Planet of the Apes made like almost 70 million opening weekends. It was 70 million, you know, 24 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

That's massive.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Was pretty significant. And I think Rush Hour Two did like almost the same thing, and it's like you need to be a really great movie to survive that kind of competition. And Jurassic Park 3 definitely divided people. I know it still like divides fans to this day. People seem to enjoy it more, but at the time it was not looked upon as a an entry that was as good as the first two, or at least the first one. I mean, so it I'm glad that it's it's kind of come around to where people appreciate it more, but at the time not so much.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

No, I feel like I've spent most of my time defending Jurassic Park 3, and that seems to have changed in the past couple of years. Um people have finally come around to the joy of Jurassic Park 3. And another thing that I've always really liked about the film is the score, you know, because again, Don Davis had a lot of pressure on him to create a score out of John Williams's amazing score for the past two films.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Yeah, I mean, I like it. I bought the soundtrack. I think well I probably got it as like a gift in 2001, probably for Christmas. But I mean, I think it's great. I think it's very strong. Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing with somebody stepping in for Spielberg, you know, step in for John Williams. That's a lot of pressure and a lot of a lot you have to live up to. And I think using some of the the classic moments from John Williams, you know, previous scores, it works, but adding on to it, I mean the aviary sequence, like the music, the reveal of the the Toronto, just like the music, it's just it sticks with me. I don't I think it's it's underappreciated, that's for sure. And that's another person I would love to talk to, Don Davis. I mean, I can't imagine what that's like stepping in for someone of you know like John Williams.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

And he was suggested, I think, by John Williams to take on the role.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Who was he?

SPEAKER_02 51:30

But I listened to that CD a hundred times. The Randy Newman track.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

As a kid, I always thought it was kind of funny, like so random to have the song from the bar on the soundtrack. I appreciate it now more. I think it's great. I love the song.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

It's the time of music on soundtracks, and they thought even Jurassic Park 3 has got to have at least one track.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Yeah, plus I mean, the CD you could put into your computer drive and watch the trailer and some behind-the-scenes stuff. So as as a kid, it was I loved it. I mean, I still listen to the soundtrack, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

I was wondering your podcast, Stuck on Sauna, what was the production history? Like, how long were you in production for making that series? You spoke to uh like it feels like hundreds of people.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Quite a few, and some like didn't even make it into it um into the podcast where like I couldn't fit fit it into like the the conversation somehow. And hopefully I'll use it on you know new episodes. But yeah, I mean I started interviewing in 2018 and I talked to the editor, Robert Delva. And at first I I emailed him, he emailed back, and I was it was a struggle to get him to agree to a phone call. Like he just wanted to like email back and forth. I'm like very polite. And that was literally just like recording my phone on speakerphone is like 2018. I I wanted to do a Skype call at the time, but he was an older gentleman. Um he's since passed away. The technology thing, like it just wasn't wasn't working. It's like if this was like 2020, you know, during COVID, everybody's using Zoom, that'd be very different. But in 2018, we did the phone call. So interviewed him, reached out to a lot of people, but I mean, I think it was just tough to get started because I mean I didn't have anything to say or show anybody. So it really wasn't until probably like 2020, late 2020, where like I really had time to reach out to more people and I think more people had free time that they could, you know, agree to let me interview them. Yeah. In 2021, in July, I released the the first episode. And I really thought I would just be releasing an episode where like each episode would be like an interview with somebody, just like very basic, straightforward.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

But then people were talking about the same thing or you know, sharing the same stories about different parts of the film. So sort of like editing it together that way, and I realized it'd be a bigger project than I expected. Yeah. My goal was something very simple, just release some interviews, and then I started editing them together, and it was just it kind of took over my life for a little bit, like after work and into the night. Um whereas like right now I'm I've been interviewing off and on people for episodes I want to I'm gonna release like next summer for the 25th anniversary, and I'm trying to uh plan it out better so it's a little bit easier, but it all depends on who agrees to talk to me.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

It's fantastic. I think and I think these things are really important for getting particularly what you've done, because that film didn't have the kind of love that Universal gave to Jurassic Park and The Lost World, there wasn't a making of book. I think yeah, what you've managed to do is capture a bit of production history, and you know that's I think that's incredibly important because as you say, the editor's now passed away, and this is his you know contribution. His if you hadn't have reached out to him, we wouldn't have had that conversation with that you know person about his history of making that film.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

So yeah, I think it's it's an amazing listen and I'd I appreciate the kind words, and yeah, I I do wish there was more official JP3 love from uh Universal, but it definitely feels forgotten a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Yeah, I'd just like to say thank you so much for joining me today. I think it's been really great, and I can't wait to hear what you've got coming for the 25th anniversary.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

Yeah, that's my goal. That's my goal. So we'll that's what I'm working towards, but we'll see. Yeah, hopefully I'll get some good people to be interviewed. But I mean, it's still I'm constantly reaching out to people and hoping some of the bigger uh people in the production will respond, but we'll see. Fingers crossed. So I appreciate you listening and uh thank you for interviewing me and talking to me about JP3 because I love JP3 and Jurassic Park, and I'm glad you thought of me for this episode.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

My big thanks to Daniel for that conversation. He is just so knowledgeable and passionate about this film, and it really does come across in his Stuck on Sauna podcast. And I think it's a podcast that's not just for JP3 fans, I think it's a podcast for film fans. Go and follow him on Instagram at Stuck on Sauna. Up on this feed, I've got a bonus episode coming out this Friday as I take a break from looking at the films in the series. I'm just trying to simulate the agonizing weight between Jurassic Park 3 and Jurassic World, so bear with me, but I have got an amazing conversation to bring you. It's with Jurassic Franchise Ambassador Stephen Ray Morris of the See Jurassic Rite podcast. We cover our excitement for rebirth, we share our series rankings and hot takes, and also our prediction for wedding music a hundred years from now. Let's just say it's wide ranging, and I had an absolute blast recording it. If you like what I'm doing here, then please share this podcast on social media using the hashtag road to rebirthpod and follow along on Instagram at road to rebirthpod. But until next time, I'll say thank you very much for listening and goodbye.